Thanks so much for sharing this post. I resonate with not all, but a lot, of it. I also feel like I see it in people I care for. This is an honest knowledge-seeking question: Did you/do people with OCD generally expand that scrupulosity and anxiety out to *other* people's behaviors, or is that a different disorder? Do you know?
Hi Jenn, thanks for your question. My OCD made me feel like I had to hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else (I knew it was illogical, but it still felt so real/true). My guilt and obsession with right action was *mostly* internalized; that said, I’m sure my family would say I came across as very judgmental, rigid, and superior. OCD can manifest in many ways so I can see how it could be focused on others’ morality and actions. I have heard of an OCD theme called emotional contamination, where the person is concerned that other people may contaminate them with their actions, motives, fill-in-the-blank whatever criteria OCD fixates on.
Thanks for taking the time to answer this. That all makes a lot of sense. Do you have any advice for spiritual caregivers who are *not* trained therapists, trying to provide appropriate care for people who struggle like this?
Jenn, I would recommend seeking training or learning as much as you can about OCD. The treatment and responses are very counter-intuitive and things like reassurance (of course God isn’t mad at you, you’re a good person) and talking about obsessions (like trying to find out where it came from) can make the cycle worse. Remember that it is not a spiritual issue or lack of faith, but a mental health condition that keeps people trapped in a loop of doubting.
I would also encourage your clients to get help from a trained OCD specialist (most therapists do not know necessarily know how to treat OCD, especially not the mental compulsions and complexities of scrupulosity.).
Rev. Katie O’Dunne is an amazing resource who offers consultations for clinicians and clergy on the topics of scrupulosity, faith, and OCD. She also has an app and many free resources for people with scrupulosity. https://www.revkatieodunne.com/coursesandconsultations
Awesome. Thank you. Yes, I'm well aware of my current training limitations, and that this is a mental health concern, which is why I'm asking. I *didn't* realize not all therapists are equipped to treat OCD either. I appreciate the recommendations/resources.
Thank you so much for asking and admitting your limitations! I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I am grateful for leaders like you who are open to learning! OCD is very often missed and misdiagnosed. I happened to stumble on an OCD therapist who diagnosed me, but I had been to therapy for over 20 years and it was never mentioned or addressed by non-OCD experts (who were very qualified to treat GAD and depression.) One of the reasons I started a Glitch Fix is that many of my therapist friends have told me I know more about OCD than they do. One friend told me they had one lecture about OCD focusing only physical/stereotypical presentations in their entire grad school experience. Not enough to know how to treat something so nuanced and complex!
Yikes! It seems like OCD is relatively common enough that training about it should be better. Thank you for using your experience to help educate more of us.
Hi Jenn, as someone who lives with OCD that often shows up as moral scrupulosity I do struggle with expanding that out to the people around me, especially my partner. But I think that comes from the knowledge that being with my partner is a choice I am making, and so that knowledge makes me feel overly responsible for his actions and like what he does is a reflection on my ability to choose right and wrong because I've chosen to be with him. It's a nasty thought pattern my brain gets stuck on, and it's really hard on him too. OCD tends to attach to things we value, and so for me as someone who values "doing the right thing" and values being in partnership with another person, those are areas my OCD attaches to.
Thank you so much for your vulnerability here, Kelly. That's really helpful information. I can see how that would be hard on both of you. Kudos for doing the work of awareness.
Aly, this is so fucking resonant. I feel like scrupulosity is ruining my life right now. But I'm also in the early stages of ERP, and trying to remind myself that it doesn't have to be like this forever and there is a path out of this terrible cycle. I too was raised in Christianity and my scrupulosity was initially tied up in that, but as I've deconstructed it has simply changed form and is now tied up in morality and whether I'm doing enough to care for my community. I'm learning that enough is an unhelpful unit of measurement - everyone loses when being measured against something as slippery as enough. Thank you for giving words to the struggle and for reminding me that healing is possible. Your recent wins have been so encouraging to me!
Kelly, I thought I replied a long time ago! Yes, "enough" is not a helpful unit of measurement. When I was in the thick of OCD I could easily identify 10-15 ways to improve/do better in any given moment. OCD never lets anything just be enough--the target is always moving. I am so sorry you are still so deep in the struggle. Holding out hope for relief for you and that the hard work you are doing in ERP will bring freedom! Maybe you're not good enough--and that's okay!
Oh my goodness! I’m not sure how I accidentally deleted your comment, MKM! I’m sorry you can relate and that it has been so relentless. You deserve to know if it is OCD and you deserve help and support either way :)
Thanks so much for sharing this post. I resonate with not all, but a lot, of it. I also feel like I see it in people I care for. This is an honest knowledge-seeking question: Did you/do people with OCD generally expand that scrupulosity and anxiety out to *other* people's behaviors, or is that a different disorder? Do you know?
Hi Jenn, thanks for your question. My OCD made me feel like I had to hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else (I knew it was illogical, but it still felt so real/true). My guilt and obsession with right action was *mostly* internalized; that said, I’m sure my family would say I came across as very judgmental, rigid, and superior. OCD can manifest in many ways so I can see how it could be focused on others’ morality and actions. I have heard of an OCD theme called emotional contamination, where the person is concerned that other people may contaminate them with their actions, motives, fill-in-the-blank whatever criteria OCD fixates on.
Thanks for taking the time to answer this. That all makes a lot of sense. Do you have any advice for spiritual caregivers who are *not* trained therapists, trying to provide appropriate care for people who struggle like this?
Jenn, I would recommend seeking training or learning as much as you can about OCD. The treatment and responses are very counter-intuitive and things like reassurance (of course God isn’t mad at you, you’re a good person) and talking about obsessions (like trying to find out where it came from) can make the cycle worse. Remember that it is not a spiritual issue or lack of faith, but a mental health condition that keeps people trapped in a loop of doubting.
I would also encourage your clients to get help from a trained OCD specialist (most therapists do not know necessarily know how to treat OCD, especially not the mental compulsions and complexities of scrupulosity.).
Rev. Katie O’Dunne is an amazing resource who offers consultations for clinicians and clergy on the topics of scrupulosity, faith, and OCD. She also has an app and many free resources for people with scrupulosity. https://www.revkatieodunne.com/coursesandconsultations
Awesome. Thank you. Yes, I'm well aware of my current training limitations, and that this is a mental health concern, which is why I'm asking. I *didn't* realize not all therapists are equipped to treat OCD either. I appreciate the recommendations/resources.
Thank you so much for asking and admitting your limitations! I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I am grateful for leaders like you who are open to learning! OCD is very often missed and misdiagnosed. I happened to stumble on an OCD therapist who diagnosed me, but I had been to therapy for over 20 years and it was never mentioned or addressed by non-OCD experts (who were very qualified to treat GAD and depression.) One of the reasons I started a Glitch Fix is that many of my therapist friends have told me I know more about OCD than they do. One friend told me they had one lecture about OCD focusing only physical/stereotypical presentations in their entire grad school experience. Not enough to know how to treat something so nuanced and complex!
Yikes! It seems like OCD is relatively common enough that training about it should be better. Thank you for using your experience to help educate more of us.
I have been shocked (and angered and saddened) by how little accurate and support there is for OCD!
Hi Jenn, as someone who lives with OCD that often shows up as moral scrupulosity I do struggle with expanding that out to the people around me, especially my partner. But I think that comes from the knowledge that being with my partner is a choice I am making, and so that knowledge makes me feel overly responsible for his actions and like what he does is a reflection on my ability to choose right and wrong because I've chosen to be with him. It's a nasty thought pattern my brain gets stuck on, and it's really hard on him too. OCD tends to attach to things we value, and so for me as someone who values "doing the right thing" and values being in partnership with another person, those are areas my OCD attaches to.
Thank you so much for your vulnerability here, Kelly. That's really helpful information. I can see how that would be hard on both of you. Kudos for doing the work of awareness.
Thank you so much for being so open and honest. All of this I am learning as I’ve started ERP.
It’s an honor to share my story. ERP is scary, but has been so worth it in my experience. You can do it! OCD doesn’t have to have the final say.
Oh this is such an important piece! Thank you deeply for sharing your story, Aly!
Thank you, Kristina!
Aly, this is so fucking resonant. I feel like scrupulosity is ruining my life right now. But I'm also in the early stages of ERP, and trying to remind myself that it doesn't have to be like this forever and there is a path out of this terrible cycle. I too was raised in Christianity and my scrupulosity was initially tied up in that, but as I've deconstructed it has simply changed form and is now tied up in morality and whether I'm doing enough to care for my community. I'm learning that enough is an unhelpful unit of measurement - everyone loses when being measured against something as slippery as enough. Thank you for giving words to the struggle and for reminding me that healing is possible. Your recent wins have been so encouraging to me!
Kelly, I thought I replied a long time ago! Yes, "enough" is not a helpful unit of measurement. When I was in the thick of OCD I could easily identify 10-15 ways to improve/do better in any given moment. OCD never lets anything just be enough--the target is always moving. I am so sorry you are still so deep in the struggle. Holding out hope for relief for you and that the hard work you are doing in ERP will bring freedom! Maybe you're not good enough--and that's okay!
Thanks Aly!
Thank you for this piece, Aly. Beautifully written. I’m grateful for your vulnerability.
I am grateful for your continued vulnerability and advocacy as well. I’m learning so much from you!
💕
Amazing, Aly. Thank you for your vulnerability and vital advocacy!
Thank you, McKenzie!
Thank you for your courage and the blessing this is
Oh my goodness! I’m not sure how I accidentally deleted your comment, MKM! I’m sorry you can relate and that it has been so relentless. You deserve to know if it is OCD and you deserve help and support either way :)